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SawYouAtSinai recap

I've been an active member of SawYouAtSinai for just over two years now (I was inactive while I was in Detroit). For those who don't know, it's an online dating site with matchmakers making connections.

I just shut down my account there, and have been looking through some notes to bring it to some kind of closure.

When I started there, I got a flood of girls suggested to me. I quickly realized that I was not in the target demographic. The girls I got were far more religious than I was, and I quickly took the opportunity to tweak my criteria. That turned the flood into a trickle.

The process began when I got a note in my email: “You have received a New Match!” I'd log in and take a look. When I first started, I got profiles of girls that, for one reason or another, didn't appeal to me. Now, you need to write up to the matchmaker why you were declining a suggestion, and I didn't really know what to write as to why. I quickly realized that girls who I liked were rejecting me with no qualms about it, so I learned a short reply: “Jane seems like a nice girl, but I don't see us as being a match.”

Once I declined girls that I wasn't interested in, I had to deal with matchmakers sending me girls from out of town. I clearly specified in my profile that I didn't do long-distance relationships. They sent me more. So I put it in bold. They kept sending me more. So I put it in bright yellow. They kept sending me more. I finally ended up with this:

*!*!* I live in New York City. PLEASE DO NOT send me girls who live outside of New York City. I DO NOT do long-distance relationships. I will AUTOMATICALLY REJECT profiles that are non-local, so please don't waste your time and mine. If you can understand, thank you. If you are certain that you should send me a non-local profile, please read this first. *!*!*

It mostly worked.

The next hurdle is whether the girl accepted me back. Most didn't. If they were nice, they'd just decline; if not, they'd let me expire after ten days.

If the girl accepted me, then I got sent her phone number. I'd call. Sometimes I'd leave a message and never get a return call. Several times I'd get a reply saying that she'd changed her mind and didn't want to go out after all. Several times we'd set a date and she'd call me and cancel.

And sometimes we'd actually make it out on a date. No girl ever made it to a second date.

Here's where Math Me comes in and looks at his notes. Over those two years, I had... three... four... five. Five dates.

(At this point, I could calculate how much each date cost me in membership fees, but I will refrain from doing so.)

Perhaps it works for others, but it has really not worked for me. Adieu.


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I have to be honest... Part of this entry REALLY bothered me:

How could you POSSIBLY know if you and the individual will be a match unless you meet them? "I don't see us as being a match" without having any reason is not good enough to blatantly turn options down.

Sometimes people look really good on paper and don't work in reality, and sometimes the opposite is true. But you don't know until you try... with an OPEN MIND.

Are you suggesting that I meet every suggested match in person? There would be no point in profiles, then, just a list of guys and girls and direct them to meet up.

The whole point of a profile is to present a picture of who someone is. It is not unreasonable that I should get a sense from that image that the person who created it is someone that I'm not interested in meeting.

You're a lawyer so I'll throw some logic at you. While I agree that you need to meet someone to really know if they're a match, it doesn't always take a meeting to know if someone _isn't_ a match.

Oh, and it's not like I didn't have a reason. It's a feeling in your gut that says "yes" or "no". It doesn't provide words. I had reasons, just no words.

On a broader picture, non-internet dating isn't exactly different. People don't return calls, change their mind and cancel. It almost sounds like you are hoping to skip the horrors of early dating and move right into a full-fledged relationship. Oh, and your friends probably have less of an idea what you like than the Saw/Sinai algorithm.

Don't take it personally when they flake out -- even if a lot of them flake out. It has nothing to do with you.

Actually, once the "flood" turned into a "trickle," and the prospective girls came in, I would say YES!!!! Meet *every* suggested match in person. They are suggested for a reason, they know other people, and it gets you out there - more than you are now.

Further, to counter your alleged lawyer logic, even if it _isn't_ a match (and you somehow know 100% it isn't, which is a reach anyway), it's more than possible that the girl you met up with would know a friend of hers who MIGHT be a match. For every girl you meet, she has *at least* 3-5 girls that she knows who is also looking. If for no other reasons, you should go out with a suggested girl.

But by refusing outright, you eliminated those possibilities as well.


I'm sure the non-internet world has all the same issues. I'm just cutting off SYAS due to low ROI. If I'm going to go on five first dates, it's not going to take me two years to do so.


I'm not against meeting people in general and their friends. The SYAS framework turns each match into a potential soulmate, and that just doesn't work for me.

I'm still going out, hanging out wit' da Jews, saying "hi" to every cute girl on the Great Lawn and seeing where it goes.

Please don't worry about it.

Sigh. I feel like you have completely missed my point.

And you mine.

I think this means the discussion is over.

Your response was harsh and unnecessary... Rather than missing each other's points, perhaps we just agreed to disagree, which does *not* mean a discussion is over. We can continue it another time though...

I just chuckled when I read through this interchange.

I think that you both have valid points. Upshot is that Avi doesn't want to spend his money on something he doesn't see as panning out.

My comments are as follows. Talya is correct as far as girls do have friends that they do think about in terms of setting up.

My experiences with SYAS is that yes, it's annoying. I will also say that I do comment with plenty of words to explain why I don't want to go out with someone. Hopefully (not not always) the person who suggested it takes my comments into account (and yes, that has happened). I never dismiss anyone without a good reason. I've gone on first dates that I knew wouldn't go anywhere because I had no really good reason to say "no". I'm not a fan of Brooklyn, but someone suggested it and I had no other reason that the person was from Brklyn. that I didn't want to go out with them. So I went out and he dumped me - great, makes my life easier. Do plenty of guys reject me- absolutely. Do I know the reasons? Nope. Do I care? Nope, their loss. Is dating easy, absolutely not. But on the other hand you marry just one person. SYAS is an avenue to other places whether in NY or not. Without the online option -outside NY is closed off (I know you're not interested in outside of NY, maybe for some reason a girl would want to move to NY) otherwise there are also girls in NY you wouldn't know existed and don't hang out on the Great Lawn in Central Park.

Don't expect a response from me on this subject, I'm not on internet more than once a week. I've said my piece.

love you all-

I'm curious what vibe you are sending to the girls you call. How do you feel when you call them?

I would NOT recommend SYAS at this time. I was suddenly removed from the site and given wishy washy reason why including one matchmaker didn't like that I criticized her profile. I was also told "The Matchmakers felt they couldn't help me" which wasn't really true. SOME matchmakers I sense didn't like my profile and my views. So that is why you have 300 matchmakers? Unfortunatly though, Rebecca Benjamin and Danielle Jacobson two single women are making these decision and CLAIMING to speak for 300 matchmakers which is not right. These two are overriding the whole system. I know for a fact that they don't speak for all 300 matchmakers because the profiles were QUITE different between individual matchmakers. And I was receiving more matches then I could handle plus I had 2 females that I was going to approve before I got removed suddenly and couldn't contact one. Anyway this is the letter I receive.

Hi Adam
This is Rebecca, I work with the matchmakers. You recently
declined a match on the site, and in declining insulted the
matchmaker saying "I also really don't know if you are a matchmaker
or interviewing for a job reading your profile. It seems the latter
to me." Our matchmakers are all volunteers who do their best to
help singles connect. Based on this response as well as multiple
previous decline messages, the matchmakers feel they can't
help you find what you're looking for. We will not be renewing your
membership, but as your current month's membership expires
today we will not be issuing you a refund.

I would ADVIZE NOT JOINING at this time because you can't be honest on this site. I never received any communication about anything and this is what completely out of the blue.

I also just want to add that I took the time to explain why I rejected the matches I did. I accepted a significant number (about 55 matches). Yet Rebecca didn't like my reasons. If I just gave vague reasons I likely wouldn't have been removed. I also spent much time on my profile and picture and this is what I got. I don't want this done to other guys but they will just play with guys and use them and just suddenly remove you and not even give you the information of your current matches.

I also wanted to add (this will be my last post until someone comments, I promise) and this also is a problem Rebecca Benjamin who removed me suddenly off of SYAS was a panelist at an event called Sex and the City how to have it all
Here is the link. See item #4

The speaker was Dr. Ruth who is now in her 80's and has been divorced twice likely at a time when divorce was less common. That is who Rebecca trusts and this is the lecture that they give Jewish women . Oy Vey! of course I am the bad guy when I reject a match because I don't think the women has the qualities I am looking for and I try to explain which I am sure is quite different then this sex and the city event. So even though I accepted many profiles the reasons I gave when I rejected didn't agree with Rebecca views so I was kicked off. Frumster was also involved but at least Frumster there seems to be some checks with the people running the site and to be fair they seem to have gone in a better direction since then. If anyone is reading this what do you think about this? I can discuss what I said and you could tell me if this was so horrible.

While you are frustrated with SYAS and anti this site I'd like to know if you have a better idea?

In a world so large how can you cut yourself off to "ONLY NYers?" There are TONS of out of town women who travel to NY JUST TO DATE - how do you know the women you were being sent wouldn't have come in TO DATE YOU????

There is no best solution - there is an epidemic, but you have to keep an open mind and an open heart.



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